August 19, 2012 “MEET THE PRESS” CLIPS & TRANSCRIPT -- SUNDAY, AUGUST 19 Mandatory Credit: NBC News’ “Meet the Press”
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WASHINGTON, DC -- August 19, 2012 -- Today’s “Meet the Press with David Gregory” featured an interview with the Chairman of the Democratic Governors Association, Gov. Martin O’Malley (D-MD) and Chairman of the Republican Governors Association, Gov. Bob McDonnell (R-VA); a roundtable conversation with Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed (D), Republican nominee and Tea Party backed candidate for the U.S. Senate in Texas Ted Cruz, the Washington Post’s E.J. Dionne, the Wall Street Journal’s Peggy Noonan, and NBC’s Chuck Todd; and an extended clip of David Gregory’s “PRESS Pass” interview with former NYC Mayor Rudy Giuliani (R).

Below are highlights, web clips, and a rush transcript of today’s program. All content is available online at www.MeetThePressNBC.com.

# # #

O’Malley: Biden’s “chains” comment was “an indelicate choice of words”
VIDEO: http://nbcnews.to/TNDWVf

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY: I think it was an indelicate play on the Republican words of shackling the economy with regulations and shackling small businesses. And so it was certainly an indelicate choice of words.

DAVID GREGORY: He wasn't injecting race into the campaign?

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY: There's not a racist bone in Joe Biden's body. I'll tell you, the injection of race into this campaign has been coming from the false allegations, allegations that PolitiFact and others have said are totally false, on a very racially imbued issue of welfare reform. The false attacks on the president I think are far more out of line than the indelicate choice of words of the vice president.


McDonnell: character attacks are “way beneath the dignity of the American people”

GOV. BOB MCDONNELL: Honest debates about issues, I would say, whether it's welfare reform or other things, that are based on policy, that's fair game. We can disagree on that respectfully. But these character attacks about the other side are just horrific. ... I think it's way beneath the dignity of the American people. Very different than the "hope and change" campaign, very optimistic in 2008. Now it's negative and divisive.


O’Malley: Romney is “hiding his money in off-shore accounts and betting against the future of the United States”
VIDEO: http://nbcnews.to/P7j9sl

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY: Well, look, this is what we know: We know that he has been engaged in tax avoidance schemes, with off-shore accounts, in the Cayman Islands, in the Bahamas, Swiss bank accounts.

DAVID GREGORY: You're not suggesting anything unlawful?

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY: Not unlawful. But it is tax avoidance. At a time when our country needs everyone's help to accelerate our nation's recovery, he's hiding his money in off-shore accounts and betting against the future of the United States. Hardly the credentials of a person that we should elect to lead--


McDonnell: “We have rhetoric of Obama, and we have serious hard talk and real solutions from the Romney/Ryan ticket.”
VIDEO: http://nbcnews.to/RaeWYE

GOV. BOB MCDONNELL: We're broke. And [Romney and Ryan are] being honest about the fact that we're broke. … If we don't reform this Medicare system, Martin and I, when we get to 65, it's not going to be solvent and our families won't be taken care of. That's the biggest difference. We have rhetoric of Obama, and we have serious hard talk and real solutions from the Romney/Ryan ticket. We're in trouble in the country, we've got to make changes.


O’Malley: unemployment rate can be driven when we “remove the obstructionist Tea Party Congress”

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY: Well, there will be ups and downs on this road to recovery, but there are some things that you cannot debate. … There were more jobs created last year in our country than during the entire presidency of George W. Bush. More jobs created the year before than during the entire presidency of George Bush. The unemployment rate can and must be driven down, but that's only going to happen when we make some changes in Congress, remove the obstructionist Tea Party Congress.


Cruz: “if this presidential race focuses on issues...Republicans win. If it's a battle of personalities, Republicans will lose.”

TED CRUZ: Look, I think the biggest Ryan effect is that this race is going to focus on issues. I am thrilled with the pick of Paul Ryan. And my view for months has been, if this presidential race focuses on issues, if it focuses on the economy, on President Obama's abysmal economic record, Republicans win. If it's a battle of personalities, Republicans will lose.


Dionne: Ryan “accelerates” the “substantive choice about the “role of government in the future of our country”

EJ DIONNE: I think, for all the talk about how nasty the campaign is, even before the Paul Ryan pick, this was a very substantive choice and a substantive argument about the role of government in the future of our country. The Ryan pick sort of accelerates that process, or makes it even stronger, but it was there already. … And I think at the end of this election, the one issue we're going to decide at least is does the government need more revenue -- yes, tax increases -- in order to balance the budget, or not? And you have a very clear difference on that. The voters are going to know that. And we're going to ask do we raise taxes on the wealthy, at least to balance the budget, or do we cut taxes further.


Reed pushes back “on this notion of Paul Ryan as a serious man”

MAYOR KASIM REED: I want to push back on this notion of Paul Ryan as a serious man. He voted for every budget-busting measure under President Bush. He voted for T.A.R.P., he asked for money under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, he voted for both wars, he put Medicare on a credit card. And then all of a sudden, in the last 24 months, he's developing this stature as a serious guy. So I want to push back on that. And then in terms of this week, he's underperformed Sarah Palin. He's contributed about a 1% bump, and according to Gallup, the Republican pick for vice president typically performs at about five points.


# # #

Web clips from today’s program:

Full interview with Govs. O’Malley and McDonnell
http://nbcnews.to/Nd69jj

Full roundtable
http://nbcnews.to/SEBKgs

Chuck Todd breaks down the battleground map
http://nbcnews.to/NyCcMe

Full “PRESS Pass” with Rudy Giuliani
http://nbcnews.to/S4WYIi

David Gregory’s post-show analysis
http://nbcnews.to/OMNlxe


# # #

Below is a RUSH transcript of this morning’s broadcast -- mandatory attribution to NBC News’ “Meet the Press.” A final transcript of the program will be available at www.MeetThePressNBC.com.

“MEET THE PRESS WITH DAVID GREGORY”
August 19, 2012

DAVID GREGORY:
Joining me now, governor of Maryland, Martin O'Malley, and governor of Virginia, Bob McDonnell. Governors, welcome, both of you. Hold your fire on Medicare--

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY:
Thank you.

DAVID GREGORY:
--because we're going to get to some of those specifics in just a minute. But I want to ask more generally, Governor O'Malley, what is the Ryan effect on this race, one week after he was selected?

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY:
Well, I think it's still shaking out. But clearly now, if the voters of the country had not already a real stark difference of choices in terms of approach to job creation, growing the middle class, expanding opportunity, now we see the leader of the Tea Party Republican Congress, their budget chief, actually stepping up. And so we have a real clear contrast now when it comes to basic commitments, like the commitments we've made to seniors in Medicare. So I think that as this shakes out, you're going to see a very clear contrast between President Obama's vision of an America with more opportunity, and the Romney/Ryan vision of less.

DAVID GREGORY:
Governor McDonnell, for all of the energy and the excitement on the Republican side that you have talked about, you do have Republicans talking about risk, risk politically, and the fact that a Ryan budget, that a lot of Republicans have been running away from ever since he first introduced it.

GOV. BOB MCDONNELL:
Well, good morning, David, and good to be on with my friend, Martin. Hey, this is a serious election and it calls for serious candidates that have real solutions. We are in debt $16 trillion, we have a horrific economy with the president's policies, 8.3% unemployment, over 8%, 42 months.

It takes big ideas and things that are going to take some sacrifice for a lot of people in order to get our country back on track. Paul Ryan has been honest about what it's going to take. Medicaid is in trouble; Medicare is going to go broke in 12 years. And it takes a real changes in the spending habits of the United States of America to get our country back on track.

So I think Paul Ryan's a serious candidate with real solutions. Time for rhetoric is over; there's plenty of rhetoric out of this administration. And now we need real answers about how to get America out of debt and back to work. And Paul Ryan's got some good ideas on how to do it.

DAVID GREGORY:
As you both know, his counterpart, the vice president of the United States, Joe Biden, created one of the more emotional moments on the campaign trail this week. Raised a lot of eyebrows, got a lot of back and forth going. He was talking Tuesday in Virginia about Romney/Ryan policies with regard to financial regulation, and this is what he said.

(Videotape/Tuesday)

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN:
Romney wants to let - he said in the first 1-days - he is going to let the big banks once again write their own rules. Unchain Wall Street. He is going to put you all back in chains.

(End videotape)

DAVID GREGORY:
Governor O'Malley, "Put y'all back in chains." What was the vice president doing there? Was he over the top?

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY:
I think it was an indelicate play on the Republican words of shackling the economy with regulations and shackling small businesses. And so it was certainly an indelicate choice of words.

DAVID GREGORY:
He wasn't injecting race into the campaign?

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY:
There's not a racist bone in Joe Biden's body. I'll tell you, the injection of race into this campaign has been coming from the false allegations, allegations that PolitiFact and others have said are totally false, on a very racially imbued issue of welfare reform. The false attacks on the president I think are far more out of line than the indelicate choice of words of the vice president.

DAVID GREGORY:
Governor McDonnell, your former governor in Virginia, Doug Wilder, had a different view. He spoke this week and took issue with the vice president, and the president as well. This is what he said after those remarks.

(Videotape/Wednesday)

FMR. GOV. DOUGLAS WILDER:

When he says they are going to put y'all back in the chains, what he means, you were there, I wasn't. And when you go back, I won't be going with you.

Biden's remarks brought race into the campaign. And they were not necessary.
Cool it, back up. And there's nothing wrong with saying I was wrong. I never intended to do this. What I said was inappropriate. It was wrong. You can't defend it.

(End videotape)

DAVID GREGORY:
Now, look, the president, the vice president have said there was no racial connotation here that he meant. This is over-scrutinizing what candidates say when there are so many words that are said in this day and age on a campaign trail. How do you see it?

GOV. BOB MCDONNELL:
I agree with Governor Wilder, and President Obama and Vice President Biden have doubled down on those remarks. Listen, in the last couple weeks, you've had that incendiary and way over-the-top remark, you've had allegations about Mitt Romney not paying taxes. You've got a Super PAC ad that says that Mitt Romney actually killed somebody's wife. I mean, this is way over the top.

Honest debates about issues, I would say, whether it's welfare reform or other things, that are based on policy, that's fair game. We can disagree on that respectfully. But these character attacks about the other side are just horrific. But I understand it because, if you've got a record where you've got $16 trillion in debt and no energy plan and a jobless rate of 42 months over 8%, of course you can't run a campaign on the issues and you're going to have to resort to that.

I think it's way beneath the dignity of the American people. Very different than the "hope and change" campaign, very optimistic in 2008. Now it's negative and divisive. And I think the more we focus on serious issues like debt and Medicare reform and these issues, it'll be better for the people.

DAVID GREGORY:
You have Governor Romney talking about a campaign of hate on the part of the president of the United States. Strong words.

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY:
Well, Governor Romney's the sort of guy, David, that you'd never want to play pick-up basketball with. He's always fouling and he's always crying foul. Governor Romney himself has launched a series of attack ads falsely accusing the president of unwinding welfare reform. It's been determined false. Governor McDonnell himself was labeled as false by his own PolitiFact in Virginia for saying that the President's trying to do that.

So I think what we've seen telegraphed here on this hyper scrutiny of Vice President Biden's remark is the intention of the Romney campaign to do everything in their power to rough up the president, to go after him with a huge money advantage, and to attack his character. And if necessary, to do it on grounds that in the past have been fraught with racial tensions--

DAVID GREGORY:
All right, we--

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY:
--and racial resentment.

DAVID GREGORY:
Let's talk about the effort to rough up both sides. This issue of Mitt Romney's taxes came up again this week. The Obama campaign putting pressure on him to release more of his tax returns, even saying this week, "Just release five years and we'll let the issue alone." Mitt Romney, Governor McDonnell, spoke about this on Thursday, an impromptu event where he was talking about Medicare, and then he answered a question about his tax returns. Here's what he said.

(Videotape/Thursday)

DAVID GREGORY:
A direct question related to that answer: Was that 13% in federal income tax? Is that what he paid? Why won't he answer more? Should he?

GOV. BOB MCDONNELL:
This issue is not about Mitt Romney's tax returns. That's not what Americans care about. They care about their own tax returns, and the whopping increases in taxes and regulation that this administration has put on the American people, and what they're going to put on.

Here's what we know about his tax returns. He's paid his taxes, he's released more documents than he needs to, he's made a lot of money, he's been successful, and he's a very generous guy. Now, I say let's talk about what the American people are going to vote on, and that's jobs, debt, spending, energy, and the American dream.

Now, Mitt Romney's laid out a five-point plan for the middle class, focusing on debt reduction and small business and trade and workforce development. I mean, these are the substantive issues, Martin and I, I think we both agree--

DAVID GREGORY:
All right, well, Governor O'Malley, do you really think Mitt Romney--

GOV. BOB MCDONNELL:
--that Americans care about, not tax returns.

DAVID GREGORY:

Is he lying about his tax-- do you think he didn't pay taxes?

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY:
Oh, I don't know. It's hard to imagine that he would continue to hide and make the big secret of the campaign whether or not he paid taxes. The only thing we know for sure is one year of returns. We know that he had Swiss bank accounts, Cayman Island accounts. And we know, under Paul Ryan's plan, he'd actually pay not 13% but he'd pay less than 1%.

So I don't know why Governor Romney won't come out with his tax returns. Certainly when he was reviewing the tax returns of vice presidential hopefuls, like Governor McDonnell or indeed Paul Ryan, he asked for more than one year of tax returns--

DAVID GREGORY:
But is there any evidence to suggest that Mitt Romney did not pay exactly what he should have paid in taxes, under the law?

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY:
Well, look, this is what we know: We know that he has--

GOV. BOB MCDONNELL:
No.

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY:
--been engaged in tax avoidance schemes, with off-shore accounts, in the Cayman Islands, in the Bahamas--

DAVID GREGORY:
You're not suggesting anything unlawful?

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY:
--Swiss bank accounts. Not unlawful.

DAVID GREGORY:
There's no evidence to say anything's unlawful.

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY:
But it is tax avoidance. At a time when our country needs everyone's help to accelerate our nation's recovery, he's hiding his money in off-shore accounts and betting against the future of the United States. Hardly the credentials of a person that we should elect to lead--

DAVID GREGORY:
Governor McDonnell, a quick response on that.

GOV. BOB MCDONNELL:
That's just flat wrong, Martin. This is the same reckless and slanderous remarks that Harry Reid said a couple of weeks ago. And this is not what the American people care about, this is below their dignity. This is about how do we get the greatest country on earth out of debt and back to work? And Obama's just flat failed.

Nice guy, bad policies. Hasn't got the job done. It's time for a change. And I'd say the Ryan/Romney ticket, that's positive and optimistic and believes in the American dream, and wants to get people back to having an opportunity to succeed, that's what we need to talk about. And these other diversionary issues on accusing Ryan of throwing grandma over the cliff, and Romney of killing somebody--

DAVID GREGORY:
All right, well--

GOV. BOB MCDONNELL:
--his wife, and not paying taxes, these are diversions. Let's talk about the issues.

DAVID GREGORY:
Let's talk about Medicare then. There has been so much noise and back and forth on Medicare. Let me try to boil it down this way: There are still questions out there about each side and how they would approach it. This is what we know. Let me start with the president's approach, and I want to put it up on the screen for our viewers so we can have a basic understanding of this.

The president wants to leave the program in place the way it is. It's a defined benefit program. Already passed under the health care law will reduce payments to hospitals, to health care providers, and private insurers to the tune of $716 billion. You've heard that figure a lot this week. And he claims that he would extend the solvency of Medicare eight years, until 2024.

Here is the Romney approach, as we understand it so far. Beginning not until 2023, he would change the program. He would offer premium support or a voucher so that seniors could buy private insurance through competition. There would also be a choice, Romney says, that you could have the option of keeping traditional Medicare. He says he would end the President's health care plan, take that $716 billion that was moved out of the program and put that back into the Medicare program. So Governor O'Malley, that's the approach. What are the key differences that people need to understand?

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY:
Oh, the differences really go to the heart of what kind of country we want to become. I think Governor Romney's plan is for a country of less, where we actually cap what we do to protect the security of seniors. We give them a voucher and we tell them, "Good luck. You're on your own to cover whatever the difference is."

And the congressional budget office has estimated that this will lead to our nation spending anywhere from $5,900 to $8,000 less per senior. Those are dollars that are going to have to be covered by senior citizens themselves.

DAVID GREGORY:
But to be fair, that was scoring of the Ryan budget, which would not necessarily be the Romney plan. I mean, that sixty that--

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY:
Well, actually, Governor Romney said that there's really very little difference between what--

DAVID GREGORY:
He did say there's very little difference. Well, let me have--

(OVERTALK)

DAVID GREGORY:
--Governor McDonnell respond to that point. The argument is, if you put seniors in a position where they're exposed to the vagaries of the private market, they're going to have to pay more. Again, we're not talking about current senior or current beneficiaries, but down the line that's what folks would be forced to do.

GOV. BOB MCDONNELL:
Well, all you need to do is that the Medicare trust fund's going broke in 12 years and President Obama's not only for the status quo but he wants more spending without reform. That's just irresponsible and reckless. Every governor in the country is reforming their pension systems because this defined benefit and the numbers just don't work.

I think Romney and Ryan are honest in saying, "Look, we're not going the right direction. If you want money there for future generations, you need reform." And I think you've accurately described the differences. Paul Ryan doesn't touch any benefits for people over 55 but after that, yes, gives people some choices.

Do we not trust people to make good decisions for their own health care? Or do we believe government's got to make every decision for you? That gets to the heart of it. But if you get rid of Obamacare and take that $716 billion back, you can do an awful lot to shore up the solvency of the system, and that's what they're going to do.

DAVID GREGORY:
But one of the claims out there, and Paul Ryan has made it, is that the president has robbed the Medicare fund of $716 billion.

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY:
Totally.

DAVID GREGORY:
Now, Democrats have attacked Republicans in the past for doing the very same thing. But these are not benefit cuts, and indeed, Ryan made those same cuts in his own budget. In fact, he is denying payments to hospitals. But Ryan is trying to get to the idea of more efficiency in the health care system instead of just paying for volume. Don't you think that that criticism is over the top by the Republican ticket?

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY:
I do. What I think is--

DAVID GREGORY:
I know Governor O'Malley does. Governor McDonnell first.

GOV. BOB MCDONNELL:
We're broke. And they're being honest about the fact that we're broke. And Obamacare is the largest expansion of the federal government I think in our lifetime, and it's generally not acceptable to the American people. So we need to get rid of the 21 taxes and the $500 billion of new taxes in the Obamacare system, use the free market approach, and then some of those savings can be ploughed back into Medicare reform.

But to say that we're taking seniors and literally throwing them over the cliff, as the rhetoric from the left and the Obama campaign is saying, is really disingenuous. If we don't reform it, David, here's the bottom line, and Martin I hope agrees. If we don't reform this Medicare system, Martin and I, when we get to 65, it's not going to be solvent and our families won't be taken care of. That's the biggest difference. We have rhetoric of Obama, and we have serious hard talk and real solutions from the Romney/Ryan ticket. We're in trouble in the country, we've got to make changes.

DAVID GREGORY:
Governor O'Malley, I want to end on this point, just to shift it a little bit and talk about the broader economy. The reality for voters, as they go to the polls in swing states and all states, is the unemployment situation. And here were some of the state-by-state numbers that came out this week, and we'll put it up into a graphic.

All of those in yellow, the unemployment rate kicked up in all of those states. I should point out that one blue section between Indiana and Pennsylvania, that's Ohio. It did come down slightly. Still, pretty tough picture for a president running for reelection.

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY:
Well, there will be ups and downs on this road to recovery, but there are some things that you cannot debate. And most important in my mind is this: We've had 29 months in a row of private sector job growth in our country. That's the longest stretch we've had since 2005.

There were more jobs created last year in our country than during the entire presidency of George W. Bush. More jobs created the year before than during the entire presidency of George Bush. The unemployment rate can and must be driven down, but that's only going to happen when we make some changes in Congress, remove the obstructionist Tea Party Congress.

I mean, to what end, talking about the country's solvency down the road, as Governor McDonnell was, to what end and what does it help to give $5 trillion more in tax breaks to people like Mitt Romney and his friends? Look, our country is a country that can create greater opportunities and a better life for our kids, but it's not going to happen if we continue to give away huge tax cuts to the wealthy.

DAVID GREGORY:
And the tax debate, the Medicare debate, it's all going to continue. Governors, as always, thank you both very much.

GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY:
Thank you, David.

DAVID GREGORY:
We'll take a break here.

GOV. BOB MCDONNELL:
Thanks, David.

DAVID GREGORY:
Coming up, a campaign as polarized as we have ever seen. What does it mean for election day, and beyond, governing the country? Joining us, the Republican candidate for Senate in Texas, Ted Cruz, is here. Democratic mayor of Atlanta, Kasim Reed. Our own Chuck Todd; the Wall Street Journal's Peggy Noonan, and the Washington Post's EJ Dionne. Our political roundtable is up next.
(COMMERCIALS NOT TRANSCRIBED)

DAVID GREGORY:
Clear indication the Republican Party is trying to go on offense on Medicare and remove it as a liability. We'll talk more about that in just a minute. We're here with our political roundtable. Joining me, columnist for the Washington Post EJ Dionne; columnist for the Wall Street Journal, Peggy Noonan; our chief White House correspondent and political director, Chuck Todd; Democratic mayor of Atlanta, Kasim Reed; and we welcome to Meet the Press for the first time, Tea Party-backed Republican candidate for U.S. Senate in Texas, Ted Cruz. He'll be one of the main speakers at the upcoming Republican convention in Tampa. Welcome to all of you.

And Mr. Cruz, let me start with you. Big deal when you won your primary fight, one of the biggest political stories of the summer. Big party down in Texas, obviously, as you won. There was a big rally for you because of the Tea Party's strength here in another campaign. This was the headline of the Dallas Morning News: "Party crasher," it said, "Cruz rides the antiestablishment wave. Surges past," your opponent.

I want to start with you because you heart Governor O'Malley talking about Paul Ryan as part of the Tea Party obstructionist House of Representatives. Is the real Ryan effect, to you, that we have seen the Tea Party reemerge now in this campaign and occupy the real space in the campaign?

TED CRUZ:
Look, I think the biggest Ryan effect is that this race is going to focus on issues. I am thrilled with the pick of Paul Ryan. And my view for months has been, if this presidential race focuses on issues, if it focuses on the economy, on President Obama's abysmal economic record, Republicans win.

If it's a battle of personalities, Republicans will lose. And the terrific impact of Paul Ryan is, for the next three months, we're going to be talking about economic issues, about how to get the 23 million Americans that are out of work back to work. And I think that is great, going into--

DAVID GREGORY:
Well, Mayor Reed, we're also going to be talking about what the role of government is, what government should do, particularly in a distressed economy. And Mr. Cruz is right, I mean, there's a clear contrast here, which is what President Obama has wanted all along, and his team.

MAYOR KASIM REED:
Well, you know, the bottom line is I think that the Republicans made the decision to run for the second time a white/white election. And my dad said, you know, Republicans do well when they do dog-leg lefts. You go out to the center and you go out to the right, then back to the center; Democrats go out to the left, come back to the center.

This is the second time they've gone right-right, which means they're going to go into the woods. I mean, the fact of the matter is, McCain picked Palin, white/white, and now Mitt Romney, who is a moderate, is picking a person who is right-right. He's just a better salesman at.

DAVID GREGORY:
Well, EJ and Peggy, here's the Weekly Standard-- cover story this week. It's got Paul Ryan on the cover: "The assault on Paul Ryan." EJ, have they landed any real blows?

EJ DIONNE:
I think they have. I mean, Mitt Romney made, in Paul Ryan, the one and only decision he'll make in this whole campaign that made both liberals and conservatives really, really happy. Because conservatives like it for the reason Senator Cruz said. They think that if we put our--

DAVID GREGORY:
In fact, Senator--

(OVERTALK)

EJ DIONNE:
I like to make mistakes once in a while. Paul Ryan has made conservatives happy for all the reasons he said. And the liberals believe, and I think they're right, that when you put some issues on the table such as the steep cuts in taxes for the wealthy, at a time when we need to balance the budget, the voucherization or premium support on Medicare, that these issues are going to move people away from the Republican ticket. And it is doubling down on the conservative side, as the mayor said.

TED CRUZ:
And he is the mayor.

EJ DIONNE:
The other thing that I think is going on here is an attempt to say that somehow-- and Steve Benen, a liberal blogger, I think said it perfectly: The Republicans are trying to argue right now, on the one hand, that Barack Obama is a socialist who wants to socialize health care through the affordable care act, and that he's a right-wing brute who wants to cut Medicare, which is the one effectively socialized program we have. I think the contradiction there between those two arguments is not going to work.

DAVID GREGORY:
Peggy, initial things here on the assault on Paul Ryan?

PEGGY NOONAN:
Look, I think the choice of Ryan was admirable, you know? And I think Ryan himself is an admirable and accomplished person, and a serious man. He talks about serious issues. He does focus things on the budget and on entitlement spending.

But I also think this is a little bit delicate for Republicans. This is a stressed nation. This is a tough context in which to talk about things that people will hear as cuts. I respect the road the Republicans are going down. I think so far, in the past week, the real news has been they've been talking Medicare, and they've been winning on it. But long term I think the Republican issues are growth, jobs, the economy. Those are the things people trust the Republican Party on. This is all very delicate. It's strong, but it's delicate.

DAVID GREGORY:
We'll come back to Medicare, as I say, Chuck, in a few minutes. But there's a dynamic here, and you see it playing out, we've got some pictures from around the country, in terms of just how polarized the electorate is. And even different from four years ago; there was plenty of polarization. But here, you do have a very clear choice. And the high-minded campaign has not really shown up yet. What you've got is a lot of anger on both sides.

CHUCK TODD:
No, and that's going to stay. I mean, I don't think we're going to have a high-minded-- I think the debates will be interesting to watch, and it could be high-minded. But I want to go back to another point about sort of the Ryan effect. I believe we're on day 25. It's been 25 days since the Romney campaign had a coordinated push on the economy.

And that was basically the day before he left for his overseas trip. The overseas trip got caught up in some things having to do with the Olympics, what he said in Israel. Then the VP speculation, then the Ryan pick, shifts the issue area to Medicare.

You know, looking back, are they going to wish they had these 25 days back in talking about the economy, in trying to make the case that they have a better economic-- the Romney campaign will argue, "Hey, that's baked in. We're already winning that. We can talk about other issues." But it seems as if, if you asked the Obama campaign, "Hey, would you like to take 25 days off from talking about the economy," they would have--

DAVID GEGRY:
Well, but--

CHUCK TODD:
--said yes.

DAVID GREGORY:
--Ted Cruz, I mean, do not argue as, again, somebody who's aligned with the Tea Party, "Hey, all to the good." Let's talk about debt, let's talk about taxes, let's talk about role of government. Worked for us in 2010 in the midterm race.

TED CRUZ:
Well, that's exactly right. These issues aren't disconnected. The reason the Tea Party arose, the reason we saw a tidal wave in 2010, and I think we're seeing a tidal wave in 2012, is that the American people are fed up with politicians in both parties in Washington who keep spending money we don't have.

We've got a $16 trillion national debt, larger than our gross domestic product. And the great virtue of the Paul Ryan pick is Paul Ryan is a serious, substantive man who's spent a lifetime in Congress working to roll up his sleeves and tackle these problems. And you want to turn the economy around? Get the boot of the federal government off the back and the necks of small business.

DAVID GREGORY:
Peggy, I come back to this tone, though, because this polarization does matter. It does seem even more polarized and it's gotta have some impact on A) are there moderates who actually show up and vote? And who do they vote for? And then how do you govern after this kind of condition?

PEGGY NOONAN:
Yeah, that's a problem. Oddly enough, while it's so good in so many ways to focus on Medicare, by making people over the next 60 days take very definite points of view, you may make it harder to make a Medicare deal down the road.

But overall, it seems to me, I'm not sure the American people themselves are so polarized. I sort of have a sense that they tell pollsters, "I think I'm going this way for the president. I think I'm going this way for Mr. Romney." There are so few undecided.

But lately, I have a feeling there's a sort of feeling of dissatisfaction, among a lot of voters, with the choice that they have. They are open to persuasion. They are open to listening for the next 70-80 days to a point of view that is serious and not low. They want hope. There's a big group of Americans who are feeling cynical and disaffected. Somebody could reach into them and say, "I can help." That would be very powerful.

CHUCK TODD:
and David, the upside of the Ryan pick, I think, in this case about governing, is actually I do think it sort of widens the width of this election. Instead of a 51/49 race, we might have a 53/47, in either direction, which means by having the Medicare debate, you're forcing that large argument about role of government. So you're forcing everybody to take a side. You know, where do you want the government to be? And the winner might actually have a governing mandate, for a small window, but might actually have a governing mandate on role of government.

(OVERTALK)

EJ DIONNE:
I agree with Chuck on this. But I think, for all the talk about how nasty the campaign is, even before the Paul Ryan pick, this was a very substantive choice and a substantive argument about the role of government in the future of our country.

The Ryan pick sort of accelerates that process, or makes it even stronger, but it was there already. And I think that the issue, one of the arguments we're going to have, is is Ryan about balancing the budget? He's been cast as a budget balancer. His budget doesn't balance till somewhere after 2030. Mr. Ryan is primarily about reducing the size of government and cutting taxes.

And I think at the end of this election, the one issue we're going to decide at least is does the government need more revenue (yes, tax increases) in order to balance the budget, or not? And you have a very clear difference on that. The voters are going to know that. And we're going to ask do we raise taxes on the wealthy, at least to balance the budget, or do we cut taxes further.

DAVID GEGORY:
Mayor?

MAYOR KASIM REED:
Yeah, I want to push back on this notion of Paul Ryan as a serious man. He voted for every budget-busting measure under President Bush. He voted for T.A.R.P., he asked for money under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, he voted for both wars, he put Medicare on a credit card. And then all of a sudden, in the last 24 months, he's developing this stature as a serious guy. So I want to push back on that.

DAVID GREGORY:
Well, and so why this--

MAYOR KASIM REED:
And then in terms of this week, he's underperformed Sarah Palin. He's contributed about a 1% bump, and according to Gallup, the Republican pick for vice president typically performs at about five points.

DAVID GREGORY:
So should that be, Mr. Cruz, part of the record here? I mean, why is the Tea Party so supportive of a guy who was part of what the Tea Party thinks was profligate spending under his predecessor, under President Bush?

TED CRUZ:
Look, I think the reason is simple. It's because Paul Ryan has been serious about talking about these issues, about getting serious about solutions. You know, it's ironic that--

DAVID GREGORY:
But votes matter. Votes matter.

TED CRUZ:
Yeah, and I don't agree with all of his votes. But let's--

MAYOR KASIM REED:
They do matter.

TED CRUZ:
--be clear. Let's contrast the leadership Paul Ryan has shown with President Obama's lack of leadership. The Senate, for three years, hasn't had a budget. And so it's very difficult for Democrats to complain, "How dare the other side actually get serious about fixing these problems," when they don't even pretend to fix the problems.

MAYOR KASIM REED:
He wasn't serious under President Bush. Why wasn't he serious when we were funding the war in Iraq? Why didn't he say America should pay for the war in Afghanistan? Why didn't he say that, when we have a T.A.R.P. program, it needs to be available to folks on Main Street? He was for the automotive bailout--

TED CRUZ:
I'm curious, did Barack Obama say any--

MAYOR KASIM REED:
--he was for that.

TED CRUZ:
--of that? Did the Democrats say any of that?

MAYOR KASIM REED:
The Democrats did not. But I tell you what, we're not walking around, talking about a guy who has a career doing something completely different. He has a budget that doesn't balance, and he claims that he's a budget balancer. He's using supply-side economics to have a 20% tax policy that's a $5 trillion tax pressure.

TED CRUZ:
And I agree--

MAYOR KASIM REED:
It doesn't even make any sense.

TED CRUZ:
--with you. I agree with you--

MAYOR KASIM REED:
Doesn't make any sense. And we're sitting here--

TED CRUZ:
--that Republicans spent too much.

MAYOR KASIM REED:
--acting and being polite, and it doesn't make sense.

DAVID GREGORY:
EJ, a quick point in that argument?

EJ DIONNE:
I was just going to say, President Obama put a plan on the table that would balance the budget in 12 years, which is quicker than the Ryan budget. I'm a liberal. I didn't even agree with everything that was in that plan. But this notion that the president hasn't put down budget proposals.

MAYOR KASIM REED:
It's not true.

EJ DIONNE:
He's tried to reach a deal with John Boehner, and that deal fell through. But he was willing to put a lot on the table.

DAVID GREGORY:
Let--

TED CRUZ:
How many votes did that plan get?

EJ DIONNE:
Well, that is a side issue. Because--

TED CRUZ:
It got zero votes. Not a Democrat in the Senate--

EJ DIONNE:
No, Obama-

TED CRUZ:
--voted for it. Not a one.

EJ DIONNE:
Yes, because the vote was put there as a political matter. The fact is, it was a serious plan, and serious budgets get voted on--

DAVID GREGORY:
Let me--

TED CRUZ:
It got zero votes in the Senate. That's not a serious plan.

DAVID GREGORY:
Let me come back to the effect of Paul Ryan. We know and we learned this week that the Republican convention, which is coming up, is going to have a high profile keynote speaker. That of course is New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. Another prominent speaker, of course, will be Florida Senator Marco Rubio. I this week sat down with another keynote speaker from four years ago, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, and I asked him about what we're discussing: The Ryan effect on the race. This is part of our discussion.

(Videotape/Friday)

GREGORY:
You've been outspoken already on some of the big issues. Here we are nearly a week into Paul Ryan being on the ticket for Mitt Romney. What is the Ryan effect?

GIULIANI: Who can say? First of all, here's the good news for Mitt Romney: no major problem . When you think about it, that already puts the vice presidential choice at the 75 percent range of vice presidential choices. It's in that first week that the problem start to emerge -- I don't want to mention former people but you remember what I'm talking about. Second, I think it's been a positive effect for both sides, in the sense that the selection of Paul Ryan was like selecting an issue, as much as selecting a person. He was selected not for his home state, not for any perceived political advantage, not for some ethic group he was gonna connect to, but because he can speak very powerfully on a particular issue, which is how to reign in the federal government, how to deal with our budget, how to deal with our economy. And whether you agree with him or not, I think in a very powerful way Romney, rather than the President, who should be setting the agenda, has now set the agenda for the campaign. It may be a bad gamble, may be a good gamble. But I think it's gonna make it a better campaign.

GREGORY:
Well you've actually worried that it's too much of a gamble. When you said one issue, I thought you meant Medicare, because Paul Ryan certainly wants to overhaul how Medicare is run, and Romney would make those decisions at the top of the ticket. Are you worried that the gamble on Medicare is tough for a Republican to win?

GIULIANI:
Well sure, yeah. I am worried about it. I'm worried that the gamble might not work; every gamble might not work. Do I think it should have been done? Yes. Do I think it will work? I believe it'll work. But I can't guarantee that.

GREGORY:
Is it a mistake for Governor Romney, he said he'd pay no less than 13% in taxes - he was talking about Medicare at the time, he answered a question about that, and now there's new focus on whether he should release more tax returns. Is this an issue that means something? Do you think voters hear this and say, 'Yeah I got a problem with that'?

GIULIANI: I think it's a tradeoff. I mean I think, and I'm guessing, I don't know the inside answer on this, but you know, being a lawyer and representing a lot of clients, representing a lot of people with very big tax returns, having pretty big tax returns myself: If you take 10 years of somebody's tax returns who's made the kind of money that Mitt Romney has, anybody, you can spend 3 months making that person look bad and getting them off-message. I don't there's anything wrong with his tax returns, I don't think there's anything, like a crime or a fraud or anything like that -- this man's an honest man, been an honest man all his life. I think it's the feeling that this will give them the opportunity to divert this campaign for three or four more weeks, if they give them too much more material. //GREGORY: You mentioned the thrust and the parry of the campaign this week, and Vice President Biden raising a lot of eyebrows, talking about how Romney Ryan would 'put y'all back in chains,' was his quote. He went out of his way to say there was no racial implication in all that. You've been tough on Vice President Biden, you've said he doesn't have the mental capacity should he become president, that he's not too bright. What's the impact of something like this, this week? GIULIANI: Well I was astounded by his remarks. When I first heard it, I didn't see the tape, I just heard it. And I was really startled by it, it was just a really dumb remark. And that's why I said he's not so bright and you wonder. I mean it's not just that comment; Joe, Joe's a laugh line on Jay Leno. He's not a Vice President, just a joke. You never know what he's gonna say; in one week, he thought he was in the wrong state, he thought he was in the wrong century, he didn't know that Paul Ryan was a congressman, and of course he said this awful thing. The other three: I don't know, everybody makes mistakes, but Joe seems to make a disproportionate number of mistakes. And I really do believe, don't get offended, because Republicans believe this, we all believe this, we believe we're treated more unfairly by the media than Democrats. I truly believe if that were a Republican, Sarah Palin made that level of mistakes, Dick Cheney, he'd be plastered all over the media, the New York Times would go nuts, they'd be raising questions, about 'Is he smart enough, what's going on, how does a guy make so many mistakes, is he fit to be president.' That's really why I said it, because I wanted to even up the score.
(End videotape)

DAVID GREGORY:
You can see our entire conversation with Rudy Giuliani on our blog, by the way, MeetThePressNBC.com. Chuck Todd, the Biden effect. We talked about the Ryan effect; the Biden effect. I mean, you heard Republicans this week saying he's a joke, that he should be dumped from the ticket. Is he doing more harm than good to the president?

CHUCK TODD:
You know, I don't think so. We ought to remember Rudy and Biden have a little bit of a history. It was Biden that came up with that hit four years ago, "All you hear from Giuliani is noun, verb, and 9/11," and it really had a sort of weird impact on Giuliani. It got the comedians all up. So I think there's a little bit of a personal vendetta between the two.

(MAYOR KASIM REED: UNINTEL)

CHUCK TODD:
But I'll say this about Biden: I mean, I think what we like him for is what he does in the hand-to-hand campaigning. I think what's been interesting here is there is a lot of bravado coming from conservatives and Republicans. They can't wait till Ryan wipes the floor with Biden at the debate. Just be careful: Joe Biden's been around the block a few times in the United States Senate.

DAVID GREGORY:
Peggy, what--

CHUCK TODD:
I wouldn't be cocky.

DAVID GREGORY:
--did you make of this whole episode this week?

PEGGY NOONAN:
Oh, well, I thought everything Rudy Giuliani just said was true. If it had been a Republican vice presidential candidate who had made those gaffes, one after another, so comically and all on tape, the subject today of the panel would be how stupid is this person? Can this person possibly govern?

That having been said, I think there's something to what Chuck just said about the debates. You know, Joe Biden is an American politician. He's been around forever. He's a big, garrulous, warm, fleshy person-to-person pol. That has a certain power, and he can play this sort of daffy old grandfatherly thing, who everybody thinks he's going to make 15 mistakes, but he says two or three acute things that can work in a debate.

DAVID GREGORY:
Kasim Reed, did you hear race in those remarks? Did you hear a racial appeal? Doug Wilder did, as we showed the governors before?

MAYOR KASIM REED:
I didn't hear it. I mean, I watched the entire presentation, got a copy of the transcript. I didn't hear it. I think that this is small ball. I think that he was talking about the Wall Street recovery, and that was the context of the message.

When Mitt Romney or Paul Ryan stands up to Rush Limbaugh, when they're disparaging a Georgetown student who stands up to Ted Nugent, really stands up to anybody, or stands up to Donald Trump, then I'll be willing to have a conversation about a comment that the vice president made.

DAVID GREGORY:
All right, we're going to take a break here. When we come back, we'll have more from our roundtable. We're going to talk about Medicare, the politics of it, the facts of it; also, this tax debate. And Chuck's going to be at the map. We want to put this through the filter of the battleground map, and how it's being affected by all this. Our roundtable is back, right after this.

(COMMERCIALS NOT TRANSCRIBED)

DAVID GREGORY:
That's the president in New Hampshire, talking about the tax debate, talking about battleground states, being in New Hampshire. Chuck Todd is over at the big screen with his device that he keeps by his bed each night, looking at the battleground map. Because I want to look at these issues as we look ahead, Chuck, through the prism of the battleground map and that all-important road to 270 electoral votes, which is what you need to be president.

CHUCK TODD:
Well, today, we're going to look at it just through the prism of Florida, the most Medicare (I think) sensitive state. But let me just let you in on how to follow this. Here are the electoral numbers. What these numbers stand for, 237 electoral votes are in states that we think already lean in the Obama column; 191 electoral votes already lean in the Romney column.

As you'll see here, we have nine toss-up states, four on the Atlantic coast here, three in the Midwest, and two out west. But I want to show you the power of Florida in this battleground. If the president is able to ride Medicare to Florida, look at this: His 237 goes to 266. David, he's four short. You just give him New Hampshire, where he was yesterday; Romney can win everything else (North Carolina, Virginia, Ohio, Wisconsin, Iowa, Colorado, Nevada) and look at that, he's two short.

This is the power of Medicare and the power of the State of Florida. And this is why you take Florida out of the Romney column, and he needs to do a clean sweep of the rest of the battleground, including every small state like New Hampshire.

DAVID GREGORY:
It's fascinating. Chuck, come on back. As you do that, we want to put up the exit poll numbers from 2008 that showed the senior vote. This is something, EJ, you wrote about in a column this week. McCain has that eight-point advantage over President Obama back in 2008, then Senator Obama. It shows you Medicare, Florida. If he can cut into that number, it could be the end of the election.

EJ DIONNE:
Right. Over 65s have become a very big part of the base of the Republican Party. We forget, these aren't the old New Dealers who have gone on to their eternal reward. This is a more conservative generation.

Now, I was talking to an organizer in North Carolina, where I was last week, who said, "Look, we don't have to carry that vote." This is a Democratic organizer. "If we can cut the Republican advantage among seniors by, say, two or three points, it becomes very hard to beat Obama." And by the way, in North Carolina, McCain had a 13-point advantage among seniors. So Medicare is one of those issues that allows Obama potentially to cut into the vote that Romney needs to put together some of these states.

DAVID GREGORY:
You know, I've talked to Republicans, Mr. Cruz, who think that this may be a year, fingers crossed, (and they're still sweating when they say this) this could be a year when you could argue Medicare differently as a Republican. Do you believe it?

TED CRUZ:
Look, I do believe it, and I think we're going to see that tested. I think people are ready for serious leadership.

DAVID GREGORY:
Uh-huh (AFFIRM). But it didn't work for President Bush, who tried this private accounts into Social Security. He wrote in his own memoir he regrets that; he would tried for something else coming out of the gate in his second term.

TED CRUZ:
Listen, we need leadership to stand up and save Social Security and Medicare. And I think the Democrats are being reckless. Barack Obama is doing nothing to save Social Security and Medicare. And what the Romney/Ryan team is doing is running on leadership to get serious and save those programs, number one for seniors, for those 55 and over, to preserve every bit of benefits that are there. But number two, for younger folks. To have fundamental reform in those programs, so that they can be there--

DAVID GREGORY:
But Peggy, Ezra Klein--

(OVERTALK)

DAVID GREGORY:
--says this is a false choice, that the only way to save Medicare is somehow introducing private competition. There's no evidence that that necessarily works. Even the Medicare advantage program, introduced under President Bush, ended up causing premiums to rise. You wrote in your column this week, "Ryan's gotta be not a cutter, he's gotta a saver of Medicare." How does he do that?

PEGGY NOONAN:
You have to tell people, "I'm trying to be the lifeguard, not the shark." Listen, something very interesting happened yesterday: Paul Ryan went into the belly of the beast. He went into the towns in Florida. We all probably saw the speech where loads of people, most of them were over 55 years of age; you can't live there unless you're over 55--

DAVID GREGORY:
This is the Villages, it is a Republican--

PEGGY NOONAN:
Oh, sorry, the Villages.

DAVID GREGORY:
--stronghold. Yeah.

PEGGY NOONAN:
Well, it's an interesting place, you know? And it's full of people who are elderly and who showed up in great--

(OVERTALK)

PEGGY NOONAN:
\Because you had made the point about cutting into the--

MALE VOICE:
The clubhouse.

DAVID GREGORY:
Anyway, we're making a serious point here.

PEGGY NOONAN:
Huge crowd, very enthusiastic. Paul Ryan brings his mother. He says, "She is on Medicare. I am not here to try to harm those programs. I am here to try long term to save them." Everybody in America does know we're not on firm ground, economically. They know the government has to be rearranged a little bit, or realigned. I think people know that the Democrats will do nothing to save Medicare. But--

VOICES:
Wait. Wait.

PEGGY NOONAN:
--they will not like it if they have the sense that Republicans will harm them.

DAVID GREGORY:
Well, Mayor, you would argue--

PEGGY NOONAN:
And a lot will be based on that.

DAVID GREGORY:
You would argue that this is also a myth, that the president is doing nothing to strengthen Medicare. There's big part of the health care law that address this. And the White House makes that argument very forcefully.

MAYOR KASIM REED:
Yeah, I mean, I like my friend, but the president did show leadership when he made reforms that extended Medicare by eight years. Not according to some partisan group, but according to the C.B.O. And if Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney were so serious, Paul Ryan is the chair of the House budget commission. If he wanted to get his plan scored so that we could have an independent third party that could give us an opinion on what the number is, and impact, he could do it.

And if the plan was so wonderful, they wouldn't wait ten years to implement it. They'd implement it today. So he can go to a Republican stronghold and be embraced, but to say that the president hasn't shown leadership is not supported by the C.B.O.

(OVERTALK)

DAVID GREGORY:
Are you concerned-- I've talked to some other conservatives who quietly say this, but won't say it publicly right now, who say, "You know what? Attacking the president on his Medicare plan, the $716 billion of cuts, is a little disingenuous for Republicans to make that attack because it's what Republicans cried about when Democrats attacked them for this in '96, number one. And those are all cuts in future growth, they're not cuts in benefits now." Aren't these some of the same cuts that you're going to have to advocate for, assuming you are elected to the United States Senate?

TED CRUZ:
Look, if you're doing fundamental reform to save the program, then that's something to celebrate. But the problem with what Barack Obama did is he took $716 billion from Medicare, and he didn't use it to reform the program, he used it to fund Obamacare.
09:53:45:00
(OVERTALK)

DAVID GREGORY:
But you're in favor of the reforms, though?

(OVERTALK)

DAVID GREGORY:
Just not what he used the money for?

TED CRUZ:

What I'm in favor of is leadership to step up and save those programs. You know, it's interesting. We were talking about Joe Biden a minute ago. There's an old line in Washington that the classic definition of a gaffe is when a politician tells you what he actually thinks. I think Joe Biden makes an awful lot of gaffes because he actually says what he thinks.

And the Obama strategy is not going to be to talk about serious solutions to our debt, to the 23 million people out of work; it is going to be to distract and scare people. When he said, "They're gonna keep y'all in chains," we're going to see a lot of that for the next three months.

DAVID GREGORY:
All right, I want you to respond--

(OVERTALK)

DAVID GREGORY:
--to that because I know you want to respond on the issue of moving that $700 billion out.

EJ DIONNE:
Yeah. First of all, 2/3 of that money comes from either a court curtailing Medicare Advantage, which is not traditional Medicare, or trying to get hospitals to behave more efficiently in treating people. Secondly, he does move some of this money right back to seniors. If you repeal Obamacare, then seniors will be back in that donut hole under the prescription drug benefit. He gives seniors the opportunity to get checkups that they couldn't have, free checkups so they can stay well.

I think this argument resembles that chilling old line, "We must destroy the village in order to save it." The other side doesn't want traditional Medicare. They never liked traditional Medicare. They want to move it to a different kind of program.

DAVID GREGORY:
I want to--

EJ DIONNE:
That's a good debate; let's have it. But let's not pretend we're having--

(OVERTALK)

EJ DIONNE:
--another debate.

PEGGY NOONAN:
Very quickly--

DAVID GREGORY:
Before we go, I want to end on a slightly lighter note, something that caught my attention that was not about Medicare this week. And I want to show a poll in Time magazine about our devices that we use. 50% of Americans say that they keep their devices, their iPhones, their BlackBerrys, by their bed each night. 56% said they'd rather--

EJ DIONNE:
And it's a higher percent around this table.

DAVID GREGORY:
--have their device than lunch. I actually (LAUGH) carry two of them, and I keep both of them by my bed each night. What about you? I don't know. The debate will keep going about both.

MALE VOICE:
I bet it's 100% here.

DAVID GREGORY:
100%, right?

PEGGY NOONAN:
Yeah, you know.

(OVERTALK)

TED CRUZ:

If the kids are out at night, you want them to--

DAVID GREGORY:
You want to know. You want--

TED CRUZ:
--be able to call you.

DAVID GREGORY:
--to know. Thank you all very much. That's all for today. We're going to be back next week, live in Tampa, Florida, from the site of the Republican convention. If it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.

* * *END OF TRANSCRIPT* * *

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